European Referendum

Whatever you like, really, knock yourself out... I'm not the boss of you.

Re: European Referendum

Postby Gizmo » 31 Jul 2016, 22:23

I agree with a lot of what MP says ^

Also,
We are applying for nationality in this country. I don’t feel a teeny tiny bit sad about giving up my British nationality, I am now deeply ashamed of it.

The racist attacks have increased hugely, a British guy having to carry around his passport to show people he is British because he’s scared of being attacked for no other reason than the colour of his skin, WTF. Like it or not the leave vote has given the bigots a green light to speak and act out.

It disgusts me.

I have seen friends of friends posts on fb that are racist and trying to justify it. They seem to be under the belief that they voted leave because Turkey were going to join the EU and they had to stop them and/or all these migrants (meaning refugees) must stop. The refugees aren’t even from the EU and just want a safe place to live. A Syrian friend has told me what it was like there, she didn’t want to come to Europe for benefits, she came because she didn’t want to die.

I think a lot of the leave voters voted leave for the wrong reasons and they should have done some basic research, if they had I think the vote result would have been different.

I can’t wait to get rid of my British nationality.
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Re: European Referendum

Postby ches » 01 Aug 2016, 03:13

As an ex-pat from a 3rd world country, I've always found it bizarre that asylum seekers aren't given work visas. There are SO MANY very well-educated Syrians who could do wonderful things for the economy.
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Re: European Referendum

Postby qbm » 01 Aug 2016, 06:35

ches wrote:As an ex-pat from a 3rd world country, I've always found it bizarre that asylum seekers aren't given work visas. There are SO MANY very well-educated Syrians who could do wonderful things for the economy.


This 100 times over.

I have never felt British. Apart from the passport, I've never, ever described myself as British. I have however always been European. I am now not really Irish, not N Irish and not truly Scottish. I am still European. It is the one identity i have always had and always been proud of. I feel very attached to Scotland. This is my home. This is where I am me. I don't want to leave but... I am so anxious about what is happening. It's frightening.
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Re: European Referendum

Postby Marrow » 01 Aug 2016, 07:58

I have a NZ passport, as well as British. Not sure how far that's going to get me travelling in Europe, though! My immediate family is more Commonwealth than EU (India, Kenya/Tanzania/Uganda, NZ). So while I am very pro-EU, it doesn't affect me in quite the same personal way.
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Re: European Referendum

Postby LucyLastic » 01 Aug 2016, 12:35

OH's Mum was Irish. He was born in the UK and we're not married. So that's nice and simple.

Isn't he entitled then?
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Re: European Referendum

Postby qbm » 01 Aug 2016, 16:10

I think he is LL. Double check but my girls are despite being born in Edinburgh.
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Re: European Referendum

Postby qbm » 01 Aug 2016, 17:35

Yup, he's entitled as is C though you'll need to register her as a foreign birth first. If she has children they will also be entitled (so long as she is an Irish citizen before they are born).

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/mo ... tml#l091af

The passport forms can only be found at Post Offices in Ireland and must be submitted to the PO that gave you the form. I'm sure my mum would do that for you if you need it!!
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Re: European Referendum

Postby UnhappyRightFoot » 02 Aug 2016, 22:42

I don't think there are stereotypes on either side of the argument. There are simply too many reasons why people voted the way that they did. I don't think that Remainers were pushed into their voting choice by scare tactics or an unwillingness to accept that the EU isn't perfect. Everyone has their own reason, which is why moving on from the vote will be difficult.

I completely understand peoples (that I have discussed it with) reasons for wanting to remain, really, I do. And I respect that. (apart from the woman who voted in so we could stay in the Eurovision Song Contest - that's just silly!) They aren't wrong, they just have a different viewpoint to me about it all. I have never felt "European". Our country is part of Europe and will always be part of Europe. But I'm British, English and have no reason to be part of another tribe. But that's just me - I'd have to go beyond 1066 to find anyone with my maiden name not living in England!

I just see the opportunities now available to us. Primarily, the ability to trade with whomever we chose - and the number of countries already asking for trade agreements demonstrates that. Nothing has (so far) been lost, people are jumping the gun on what we'll lose. Taking away employee rights, safety legislation etc etc will be political suicide for any party who starts on that road so why would they do it. (Just like the left wing obsession with the Tory's privatising the NHS - it won't happen). We can legislate in a way that suits us, not numerous other countries. And, unlike with the EU, if we disagree with what the current government are doing, they can be booted out at the next election.

I also don't think anyone will be "sent home". Agreements will be put in place that everyone who was in place at a certain time (perhaps the voting date) will have that nationality honoured.

But all of this is up in the air. Until negotiations are well under way, we have no idea how the cards will fall. But ultimately, making British decisions in British interests can only be a good thing.

And don't get me started on Scotland. "Once in a generation" they said. Sturgeon is a lunatic. And her position to argue Scotland out of the UK "to take control" to then gift it to the EU is in a far weaker position than it was when the last vote was called.
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Re: European Referendum

Postby qbm » 03 Aug 2016, 06:19

I was a very definite yes voter in the Scottish referendum. My biggest fear about the vote (that literally kept me awake at night) was if there was a narrow-ish yes win. To my mind forcing such a massive, permanent political and societal change on a people who were essentially still hugely divided would have been undemocratic.
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Re: European Referendum

Postby sabrina fair » 03 Aug 2016, 19:34

I don't think Sturgeon is a lunatic at all. She signed up to 'once in a generation' before the referendum where her country indicated strongly that it wanted to remain in the eu and England didn't. The EU referendum changed everything. I'd probably be calling for another independence vote if I lived in Scotland. I would be incredibly sad to see the UK broken up but the leavers knew that them winning could lead to another Scottish referendum - it's unreasonable to label someone as a lunatic because they're doing the logical step to protect their country. Particularly as they're currently the most effective opposition in the UK at a time when we really need to hold the government to account.

Also, I don't remotely agree that taking away workers rights or the rights of other people with whose voices aren't easily heard (including future generations living with climate change) will be political suicide for any government. If you look at what the Tories have done to people who are reliant on the welfare system (and believe me, I've watched seasoned professionals turn white as I've outlined what the government intended to do (and have subsequently done) to vulnerable people in the name of welfare reform), you would know they're capable of anything.
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Re: European Referendum

Postby UnhappyRightFoot » 03 Aug 2016, 20:13

But Brexit was never mentioned as a cause of another referendum. Surely it should have been brought up during the last election process??

I don't think another independence referendum can be called in the next few years (as threatened) because:

- The oil price (and therefore, Scotlands economy as a whole) is not in the strong position it was when the last referendum was called, meaning the "we are strong enough to go it alone" arguement is an awful lot harder to win. September 2013 oil price was 102.58, June 2016 price was 47.69 and shows no sign of increasing given the position of the Saudi and US oil producers. There were a lot of sceptics about the sustainability of the Scottish ecomony last time round so the position is much weaker than it was.

- 38% of Scottish voters voted to leave the EU. I don't know what proportion of those previously (or would in the future) voted to leave the UK, but she can pretty much rule out 38% of the electorate if she takes Scotland back into the EU.

- People may be a bit election weary and may not be as fired up as last time round.

- There is no guarantee Scotland will be "allowed" back into the EU. There are rules which must be satisfied to join and joining would require them signing up to the Euro. The EU may make friendly noises right now but they have also made it clear that they will be dealing with the UK as a whole and no pre-negotiation talks are on the cards.

- Before the UK finalise the trading arrangements, Scotland would have no idea what the deal would be with it's largest single trading area - over double overseas exports. Not a clever position to be, especially as she won't have a seat at the negotiating table.

- I still don't see how she can win a "get control back from Westminster" call to then want to give it the EU argument. It simply doesn't stack up. Either you want to run your own affairs (and she could do a lot more than she is, she just isn't using all the powers she has) or you don't. Make up your mind. It simply smacks of being anti-English.

At the end of the day, I would rather see the UK stay as it is. But seeing as I'm roundly anti-imperialistic, I wouldn't ask any other country to be run by another in a way they don't like (one of my reasons for voting out of the EU) so if Scotland feels it has to go then so be it.

But really, all of this is conjecture. We don't know how the cards will fall.
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Re: European Referendum

Postby LucyLastic » 03 Aug 2016, 22:22

Hmm, yes, we don't know how the cards will fall, because there was No Plan for exiting the EU. I think this is the biggest problem in the whole issue, particularly for Remain voters, as the key players in the Leave campaign weren't actually in a position to have any influence over what then ensued. No one has got a f*cking clue what is going to happen. Fingers crossed, eh? :-/
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