European Referendum

Whatever you like, really, knock yourself out... I'm not the boss of you.

Re: European Referendum

Postby LucyLastic » 20 Jun 2016, 20:53

A. A. Gill wrote an excellent article for the Times group, so it's behind the paywall so I don't feel I should copy and paste it here. However, I had no similar qualms on FB where I have shared it on my profile. The general gist, in response to the woman from Doncaster on Question Time pleading 'Give me my country back', is an eloquently written article which points out:

"[...] Brexit is the fond belief that Britain is worse now than at some point in the foggy past where we achieved peak Blighty.

We listen to the Brexit lot talk about the trade deals they're going to make with Europe after we leave, and the blithe insouciance that what they're offering instead of EU membership is a divorce where you can still have sex with your ex. They reckon they can get out of the marriage, keep the house, not pay alimony, take the kids out of school, stop the in-laws going to the doctor, get strict with the visiting rights, but, you know, still get a sh*g at the weekend and, obviously, see other people on the side. [...]"

Read it. Or don't. Your choice! i guess most of you fab women (and men, if any of you are one!) have probably made up your mind, so I'm leaving my inout here. See you on the other side :-)
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Re: European Referendum

Postby emzit » 21 Jun 2016, 12:03

Is it ironic that my MIL has voted early, to leave, because she's going on holiday to France?
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Re: European Referendum

Postby UnhappyRightFoot » 21 Jun 2016, 15:49

We will still be able to go on holiday if we leave the EU!

(And we'll still be in the Eurovision Song Contest - the daughter of a friend said she was voting Remain so we would still take part!)
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Re: European Referendum

Postby mamapup » 21 Jun 2016, 18:49

It might not be properly ironic but it's pretty amusing, emzit! Maybe it's ironic in an Alanis kind of way.
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Re: European Referendum

Postby Cofa's Tree » 21 Jun 2016, 19:21

I voted remain a few weeks ago via postal vote and I haven't seen anything from the leave camp to make me regret that decision. On both sides there's too much scaremongering and unknown quantities being posed as 'facts' because no-one really knows what will happen with a Leave gamble, but surely a united, peaceful Europe is what was fought for last century, what has fuelled our prosperity since the fall of the Empire (it is far easier and cheaper to do trade with our neighbours within the single market than to be an outsider knocking on the door or having to look further afield for opportunities), what has protected our workers and allowed an influx of hard working employees to help keep institutions such as the NHS functioning. I'm not saying it's perfect but it's better than the alternative in my opinion and no amount of rose-tinted nostalgic nonsense about 'getting our country back' has made me doubt my decision. This is far too big a decision to risk my future, my children's future and my grandchildren's future. Vote Remain all the way.
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Re: European Referendum

Postby UnhappyRightFoot » 21 Jun 2016, 21:14

I must say, I won't miss watching collectives of politicians lying every evening on the TV! (Ruth Jones, it was your turn this evening - saying something twice, doesn't make it any more true!!!!) I keep watching the debates in the hope of learning something new and hearing something that makes me want to learn more about it. Instead, I hear lies and scaremongering.

It is a shame. A wasted opportunity. Voters should be making decisions based on the truth - not the future, in particular, it can't be predicted either way. But where we stand.

People will also have their own reasons for voting the way they do. Some people will do it for personal reasons (their jobs/business may depend on the EU or be hampered by it). Some for historical reasons (my dad fought in the war and we don't want war again). Some because they fear change, some because they want change.

My reasons for voting leave are long and have been rooted since 1992 and the Maastricht Treaty. I'm not a xenophobic lunatic hanging on Farages every word. I wince at most of the rhetoric that has been spouted on the Leave side. I'm not looking for us to be little Britain, insular and only interested in itself. I've kept mostly out of discussions for the very reason that the divisive language used has turned me off most of the debate. (we're a bit nicer and more respectful here!!!) I value others opinions and thoughts on the subject and I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. There are pro's and con's on both sides. No one has a crystal ball into the future - and that's the greater part of the problem when making a decision.

I wonder what will swing it for those who are undecided - wondering if anyone will hold their hands up here and say they don't know. What answer are you looking for to help you make up your mind?
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Re: European Referendum

Postby emzit » 21 Jun 2016, 23:22

mamapup wrote:It might not be properly ironic but it's pretty amusing, emzit! Maybe it's ironic in an Alanis kind of way.


That's a good way of putting it! :D

Although now I have Ironic in my head and it's likely to be there all day. :scream
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Re: European Referendum

Postby ches » 22 Jun 2016, 06:20

As a British citizen living abroad most of my life, I don't have an emotional reaction either way. I reject the concept that maintaining the status quo is the lowest risk. However, leaving would certainly bring with it immense changes. At the end of the day, the UK is the world's 5th largest economy, and London is the banking center of Europe, of not the world. From a trade perspective, certainly, it will be less eurocentric and will involve markets further afield. That will probably push manufacturing jobs further into the margins as they are here. Education costs were rising even 15 years ago when I was there, so probably there will be stresses to the middle class, eventually a return to the educated classes and the poor. Will the Tories last? Maybe, and in which case, England wouldn't be anywhere I'd want to live again. Or will socialism check the growing gap between rich and poor, closing offshore tax haven loop holes... probably not without -Democratic or no - the checks of EU. Politicians fantastically corrupt these days. Have they always been so? Perhaps. But the press used to be freer, and there used to be such a thing as journalistic integrity. If vote Remain, probably because I don't trust the Tories, but then I don't much trust pre-Corbyn labour either. I was a long dem voter, back when they still had a spine. Maybe I'd just move to Scotland and live on a loch? :)
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Re: European Referendum

Postby emzit » 23 Jun 2016, 21:37

How is everyone feeling after voting today? DH is really passed that he didn't register to vote from here and anxiously checking the results live feed every two minutes.
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Re: European Referendum

Postby Cofa's Tree » 24 Jun 2016, 04:12

:scream :scream :scream
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Re: European Referendum

Postby qbm » 24 Jun 2016, 05:18

Fuck. Just fuck.
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Re: European Referendum

Postby Kitcameron » 24 Jun 2016, 05:43

My thoughts too ct and QBM
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Re: European Referendum

Postby Lily » 24 Jun 2016, 06:16

The really depressing thing is that those who will be worst affected by this are the poorest in society - and of course their children. They have been totally fucked over by this government, many apparently treated the referendum as a protest vote, and now things will just get worse.

Whoever thought Europe could never descend into violence again, get ready for the far right to start demanding referenda in France and Holland.
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Re: European Referendum

Postby qbm » 24 Jun 2016, 06:35

Exactly Lily. I unexpectedly found myself fighting back tears this morning in the car thinking of how the poorest will be hit by this and wondering what kind of place this will be for my daughters to grow up in. I'm so angry.
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Re: European Referendum

Postby mamapup » 24 Jun 2016, 08:54

Me too. Tears keep coming and then I wonder if we're all just being melodramatic but then I remember Farage and Johnson and Gove and realise that no, this isn't melodrama this is a very real concern about the future we're offering our children.
In my heart I am Rascalpup, a name awarded during battle with one persistent spammer. I like to think ironside but with sarcasm rather than an axe.

Slightly horrified by my huge number of posts.


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