Flipping poo

Cloth nappies, disposies, potty training... the inevitable result of BLW. What goes in, must come out.

Flipping poo

Postby Marrow » 08 May 2016, 09:37

Aaaarrgggggghhhh. It all got a bit shouty this morning.

C was not trivial to potty train in the wee sense. See previous thread, but the summary is that she held it in for hours, then eventually conceded to weeing on grass, then eventually in the loo.

And repeat for poo. Except that it's easier to hold in and happens less frequently, so we still haven't got her doing it anywhere near independently. Her preference is at home in a nappy - she will wait for bedtime. Or she will poo in one of our two toilets if DH or I hold a nappy behind her back (that nappy started on her bum, then undone, then under her bum and has got as far as behind her back, where it's doing nothing). Wiping her own bum hasn't even been attempted.

We are going on holiday in a few weeks - she needs to poo somewhere other than our house. She's known this for ages. And she starts school in September. There are lots of bribes on offer. In particular, we have said that we will buy the suitcase that we walk past every week for her (it's red and flowery). It's always been 'next week' that she is going to poo on the toilet without the nappy. We need it to be now. We have now told her that she is not having another nappy on until she does a poo in the loo without the nappy. And if that doesn't happen today, she won't be able to buy the suitcase on Tuesday, so there won't be any space for her swimming costume so she won't be able to go swimming on holiday.

We chose our hotel because it's got a good pool. She bloody loves swimming.

So, wise ones: how do we recover this such that C will poo while we're on holiday and gets to go swimming?
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Re: Flipping poo

Postby StJuniper » 08 May 2016, 12:37

Are you looking for a way to bow out gracefully from the no swimming thing? If this was me, I'd just say we'd thought it over and decided no swimming wasn't a good plan, after all, and we'd find a way to fit in the bathing suit. It doesn't strike me as a very helpful incentive, far removed as it is from the circumstance of pooing, and negative instead of positive. Wouldn't it be easier just to put her in pull-ups or something for the holiday and worry about it again when you got home?
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Re: Flipping poo

Postby emzit » 08 May 2016, 13:13

Yes, I agree with StJ... it's not a great incentive and will be annoying for all of you, not just C. I think in those situations the only thing you can do is be honest.

Can I ask why you need the no nappy thing to be happening right now? I'm think I'm reading that the main issue you need to address quickly is the poo location, so I'd be inclined to keep the nappy till after holiday so she's not dealing with two things at once. And when she does poo while away you can remind her of how great and grown up she was and that might give her the courage to ditch the nappy.
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Re: Flipping poo

Postby Marrow » 08 May 2016, 13:25

Yeah, we need to back down gracefully. The suitcase started out as positive bribery/reward - it's something she wants. We've been talking about how much fun it'll be to put all her things in it when we go on holiday. Then it all got a bit out of hand this morning - I'm horribly hormonal and DH is losing patience too. I think we'll concede that actually there will be space in our suitcase - I'm just wary of not following through on consequences, however crap a choice they are!

She hasn't pooed anywhere other than our house (in a nappy or toilet) for about a year - since we potty trained. I'm worried that she's going to start properly withholding while we're away.
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Re: Flipping poo

Postby ches » 08 May 2016, 14:11

Hmm, the way you phrased it you are using threats, not bribes. You are also using big rewards which feel unobtainable and therefore are not incentives.

I suggest you start fresh with new rewards that are much smaller and easily attainable many times a day. Things like sitting on the loo without the nappy, waiting to see if poo comes out, using a different loo, etc.

I also suspect that she has performance anxiety. The nappy props may not actually be helping. I'd try small and frequent rewards for sitting on the toilet independently. The smallest and most frequent reward is verbal praise. I'm not sure I'm one for praising using the toilet, but on the other hand, you are on a deadline, and praise is the biggest motivator for behavioral change.
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Re: Flipping poo

Postby StJuniper » 08 May 2016, 14:30

Marrow wrote:I think we'll concede that actually there will be space in our suitcase - I'm just wary of not following through on consequences, however crap a choice they are!


This isn't even really a consequence, though. This isn't something you're even sure she's capable of. It's not the same as not following through for something like defiance-- it's really not fair to give her a consequence when she hasn't done anything wrong, she just hasn't done the right thing you're hoping for...
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Re: Flipping poo

Postby Marrow » 08 May 2016, 14:45

She's fine on the loo to wee - completely independent, anywhere. She's fine sitting on the loo, and will even make comedy grunting noises to make it sound like she's trying to poo. She just doesn't want to poo without the props. She gets loads of praise for actually trying - I cuddle her so I can feel her abdominal muscles tense. And she got loads of praise and small rewards (mainly chocolate) for each incremental step from asking for a nappy (which took a while) right through to where we are now. There's always been this one final big reward for the last step.

You're all right in that (at least until September), the problem is location not props. All this happened with wee too, it just resolved quicker! Once she was weeing with no trainer seat on the loo at home, it was like the mystique disappeared and she was fine anywhere and everywhere. I guess I'm just assuming the same will happen with poo.

And I think performance anxiety is exactly right.
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Re: Flipping poo

Postby Marrow » 08 May 2016, 15:03

StJuniper wrote:
Marrow wrote:I think we'll concede that actually there will be space in our suitcase - I'm just wary of not following through on consequences, however crap a choice they are!


This isn't even really a consequence, though. This isn't something you're even sure she's capable of. It's not the same as not following through for something like defiance-- it's really not fair to give her a consequence when she hasn't done anything wrong, she just hasn't done the right thing you're hoping for...

Yeah, that's what I mean about it being a crap consequence. Or crap use of consequences. It wasn't actually me that said it...
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Re: Flipping poo

Postby Marrow » 08 May 2016, 15:09

Marrow wrote:
StJuniper wrote:
Marrow wrote:I think we'll concede that actually there will be space in our suitcase - I'm just wary of not following through on consequences, however crap a choice they are!


This isn't even really a consequence, though. This isn't something you're even sure she's capable of. It's not the same as not following through for something like defiance-- it's really not fair to give her a consequence when she hasn't done anything wrong, she just hasn't done the right thing you're hoping for...

Yeah, that's what I mean about it being a crap consequence. Or crap use of consequences. It wasn't actually me that said it...

And actually, what it would be a (crap) consequence for is doing a poo in her nappy as soon as it goes on this evening, instead of having a go on the loo.
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Re: Flipping poo

Postby LucyLastic » 08 May 2016, 17:08

Ha, literally 'crap' consequences :-D
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Re: Flipping poo

Postby Kitcameron » 09 May 2016, 06:17

Just wanted to come and give you some ((())). The number of times I've given 'crap' consequences or non consequences cos I've gotten frustrated or hormonal or whatever are beyond count. It is so hard. Hope you have a lovely holiday though and that it doesn't become a major stress factor.
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Re: Flipping poo

Postby Marrow » 09 May 2016, 07:49

I pretty much left DH and C to it yesterday - I was otherwise engaged.

They (amically) agreed that she would go nappy-free until she pooed (which she would do in the loo, with no nappy prop). The bed was double-sheeted and we were all prepared with spare pjs/duvet etc.... and she was dry!!! Called at 6am to be let out of her bedroom to go to the loo (she hasn't quite got the torque for the door knob, unless she's really angry!). Wasn't expecting that. This morning, they were planning their suitcase shopping trip for Wednesday.

She's at nursery today, so we'll see what happens when she gets home.
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Re: Flipping poo

Postby Lily » 09 May 2016, 08:55

Well done everyone! Sounds like you all managed to get out of the situation with dignity intact, which is never easy.
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Re: Flipping poo

Postby Marrow » 10 May 2016, 18:58

The poo that has been festering since Sunday (and was argued about) is out!

She was dancing around after dinner, and I offered to hold the nappy. DH not impressed with me! Oh well. I held the nappy (it's a clean nappy, which is done up as if to go in the bin) behind her shoulders; she did a massive poo. Then we talked about what the nappy was doing (nothing) and that it would be good to poo without it, wouldn't it? So we've agreed that next poo, it's going to go on top of the cistern. Then I think it might make it out of the bathroom entirely. I think she's got control back and is feeling much more confident. We did say she didn't have to get the suitcase if she didn't want it, but she's adamant that she does!

And she's in bed with no nappy for the third night. Had an accident at 12:30 this morning, but then made it through to 6:30am. We need to get lever handles for her floor of our house! The knobs have got really fierce springs.
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Re: Flipping poo

Postby StJuniper » 10 May 2016, 20:33

If she's having trouble getting out of her room in the night to go, what about a potty in her room? P has one right by his nightlight and, eased along with marshmallows, has stopped waking me in the night for potty trips...
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