Elimination Com, Natural Infant Hygene, birth to 4 mo start

Cloth nappies, disposies, potty training... the inevitable result of BLW. What goes in, must come out.

Elimination Com, Natural Infant Hygene, birth to 4 mo start

Postby MamaKh » 18 Jun 2015, 12:15

Hi
After hopefully barely reaching the top of the PT hill with #1, at 35 months (including constipation, pain, fear, lots of time and patience) I stumbled over an EC article in my preg app (due sept 27 2015). It sparked my interest the same way as when I first read about BLW when I was pregnant last time in 2012. It seems to make perfect sense to me, and fills in a lot of blanks in the early attempts of communications with my first born. It seems like the BLW of poo, or call it Baby Lead Elimination. Just as with BLW the best benefit is not an independent eater/pooper, but establishing an early and respectful communication, pre verbal communication.

I'm currently reading "Diaper free" by Ingrid Bauer (available at Amazon and iTunes) and I am convinced that this must be better than what we just have gone through. So with baby #2 in the oven I am at this point decided to start at birth, but humble for any changes that might come to that for what ever reasons.

I am starting this thread for anyone who already has done full or partial EC starting at 0-4 months, to share their experience TOGETHER with anyone who wish to join me in sharing joys, frustrations, questions and tips about early Natural Hygiene/EC, partially or fully to your choice.

All the best for now
MamaKh
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Re: Elimination Com, Natural Infant Hygene, birth to 4 mo st

Postby catkin » 18 Jun 2015, 12:55

There are quite a few of us here who've done something along those lines, or what we called baby led potty training which started older but followed a similarly child led and unhurried process.
We started casually around 3m with hamster. Very casually because she was still in nappies and just popped on the potty at our convenience or her request. So if the faff of a completely nappy free baby turns out to be too much, there's a risk-free alternative for you!
She wasn't officially nappy free till around 2.2, but we weren't using many nappies for a long time before that, and it was an easy unstressful process. Dry at night around 1, and most poos landing in the loo by then too. Like you, we had battles with mouse at 3+ so I do recommend it to all and sundry!
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Re: Elimination Com, Natural Infant Hygene, birth to 4 mo st

Postby MamaKh » 21 Jun 2015, 11:08

Thank you. That is very affirming. I guess I have to wait a few months to post more in this thread. No new experiences so far yet :)
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Re: Elimination Com, Natural Infant Hygene, birth to 4 mo st

Postby RedRum » 22 Jun 2015, 06:50

Ooooh, me!! I've just started this week with J (5w) and I think it's brilliant. It's not something I planned to do but he gets v bad nappy rash plus so I try to give him as much nappy off time as possje when we're at home. It's not always practical when we're out and about e.g driving, plus I'm not sure I'm ready for the world to know just how crunchy I am ;) so we mostly just do it at home, in the day time, although I have been managing to catch poos and wees at night too when he wakes to feed. We have v few accidents, and when we do it's more because he's a boy and the trajectory gets the better of me than because I've missed a cue. I love the fact it means he's almost never in a dirty nappy and rarely in a wet nappy for long.

I've bought Diaper-Free BAby by Christinr Gross-Loh which I've found really interesting and useful.
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Re: Elimination Com, Natural Infant Hygene, birth to 4 mo st

Postby MamaKh » 22 Jun 2015, 15:23

Ah great news and congratulations on your newborn RR!

Sounds amazing to be so successful the first week! Do you let your son sleep diaper free as well? What r for now your best way of seeing him indicating a pee/poo? It will be interesting to hear how you will go about outings and meeting the world(s opinions). I guess we all tried that with BLW, and here is the next step so to speak. What kind of support do you get from your DH?
Being very curios at this time! :)
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Re: Elimination Com, Natural Infant Hygene, birth to 4 mo st

Postby DandelionFrosting » 25 Jun 2015, 13:01

Hi! We started EC with #2 when she was about 2 months old because she would cry for 3 or 4 hours before she'd give up and poo in a diaper, so it seemed much easier and less stressful to just give in and take it off. It really does explain a LOT -- why they wake at night, why it's sometimes really hard to get them to sleep, why they sometimes cry and cry and demand to be taken out of a carrier or car seat, only to be perfectly fine with being put back in a few minutes later. It sounds crazy, but it helped with sleep a LOT. I'd feed her and feed her and she wouldn't go back to sleep; I'd pop her on the potty and she'd pee and then zonk out on the spot. That said, ever since she learned to walk she has had NOTHING to do with EC or peeing on anybody's terms but her own, and she's now 18 months and still in diapers almost full-time, so . . . ::shrug:: But it explained a lot in the first few months, and even now, with her diaper on, she seems more aware and interested than other tiny ones. She definitely knows when she has to go and what's happening when she does it (she even demands that I take her diaper off so she can sit on the potty, but doesn't do anything there) she just can't seem to remember how to do it on purpose. Especially not in a sitting position. I'd still do it again, though, for the early months. Just don't let yourself get caught up in counting catches and misses -- that way madness lies! Think of every catch as a bonus, every miss as a new bit of useful information, and don't hesitate to put a diaper on the baby when they're around things that are a pain in the neck to wash. ;)
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Re: Elimination Com, Natural Infant Hygene, birth to 4 mo st

Postby Where'stheMistletoe » 25 Jun 2015, 18:47

We have a very similar story to DF. Baby Girl is usually dry overnight and does a massive wee on the potty first thing but otherwise she very rarely does anything on the potty anymore. She did however poo on the carpet today :scream ! I tend to think she knows not to wee or poo on the carpet as she has previously known to do it on the potty so i tend to be a little relaxed about naked bums on the carpet :oops: ! I'd definitely recommend doing it though. There's a couple of threads in this section with some of us discussing this.
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Re: Elimination Com, Natural Infant Hygene, birth to 4 mo st

Postby RedRum » 27 Jun 2015, 07:39

Sorry for slow reply, we're at Glastonbury :D I'm mostly making it up as I go along but for me it's a mixture of knowing when he's likely to go (immediately after waking up, during/after a feed, or right after I take his nappy off ;)) and following his curs so like DF said if he fusses in the sling or when I'm holding him I know it's probably toilet related. His hungry cry is very different (high pitched/shrill/urgent) to fussing for a we or straining for a poo. I'm pretty relaxed about it, and my motivation is much more for his comfort and my ease (washing fewer and mostly wet nappies rather than dirty ones is a definite plus!) plus having a summer baby makes nappy free time easier to achieve. I did buy a potty but have found it easier to use a bowl (I had a high sided enamelware one that is perfect as I can sit with it held between my legs when I'm feeding him or hover him over it. Either that or I just hold him over the toilet. You can google to find the best ways to hold small babies but it definitely takes a bit if trial and error to find something that works for you! My DH is pretty crunchy too, so he's definitely on board and proudly tells our (also crunchy) friends about it, plus seeing the success we've had is enough to convince anyone. Either way, I'm the one doing the bulk of caring for the baby and all the laundry so I figure what I say goes on this one ;)

All that said, what with being away this week camping with no laundry facilities and with the huuuuge crowds and long days and limited opportunities to stop and peacefully potty the baby, he's been in disposables and we've not had more than a couple of catches when the stars happened to align, but I have been trying to cut him by making a pssssss sound when I know he's going so as to continue building the association.
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Re: Elimination Com, Natural Infant Hygene, birth to 4 mo st

Postby MamaKh » 28 Jun 2015, 20:10

I'm really liking the relaxed vibes you are all sending out :) it's treat that we have the option of disposables when we need them, but that there are other options than being left out to consumables for the rest of the time.

As I am helping Plutten PT right now I can see that there must be many similarities, and a few differences. One is that I let him sleep diaper free, and try to put him on the potty at night, either when I go to bed or if he wakes me up whimpering or squiggling. When done successfully he stays dry. If not the bed gets wet ad I'll do laundry in the morning. Very similar to responding to a baby's night time cues.
But... It must be a whole lot easier to swing a newborn over a potty, rather than a possibly very reluctant 3 yr old, especially when I'm pregnant 27 weeks and have to be careful how I get my self out of bed!
Another one seems to be that an infant that needs to go will go, as long as there is sufficient peace and quiet (as w BF I guess), where as a 3 year old will not only need to go (even very badly), they also must want to go and feel either confident or courageous! If all of this have to be done, I do say rather earlier than later.
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Re: Elimination Com, Natural Infant Hygene, birth to 4 mo st

Postby MamaKh » 20 Oct 2015, 12:46

Time for an update! Plutten is in pre school and LO sleeping, DH busy w a broken drain in the kitchen.

LO is 3,5 weeks and when we came home from the hospital and after one days rest I decided to give EC and NIH a try. Put him over a potty as i was BF, and was rewarded with a big poo within 10 min. After 2 days I discovered a different cry indicating pee/poo/burp need, different from wanting milk. A demanding "A!" instead of crying "a-a-a-a-a" in despair.

DH started out by saying "don't torture the boy" when LO was squirming as I held him over a bowl, but the little guy rewarded me with a big loud poo right there, to mine but even more so, DH's amazement. Every day DH says he can't believe it, but it is so clear, the little guy tells us when he needs to go pee or poo, is upset if we don't take him, or when wet, and is very content when pooing/peeing freely as he needs to.

We use cloth diapers at home, disposables over night and most of the times when out. When ever he wakes up from a nap or night sleep, changing a diaper, taking him out of a sling we offer to eliminate over a bowl or the sink. Most of the time he does so within 1-2 min. If he has clearly signaled, then within 10 sec. He also usually wants to pee about 10-15 min after a BF, and will then have a little more milk and go comfortable to sleep. Several times the last few days his diaper has been dry when he has been fussy (i.e. asking and searching for milk but not taking the nipple), I put him to eliminate and he does a big pee and sometimes a poo. Last night he actually didn't poo over night, but first thing at 6:30 this morning.

As mentioned in this thread (RR?) I can see a lot of fussiness with Plutten that must have been him asking to eliminate, and us not getting it. Another fun extra with this is that we are having an open communication at home about what the baby is saying, and why we interpreted it to be this or that. Plutten asks me whenever his brother cries or is fussy "what is the baby saying?", and I will have to vocalize what I think "he wants milk" " I think he is freezing" "he needs to pee". It's really cool and way more satisfying that letting him soil him self and just rock him happy while doing so. It is definitely worth a try with your little one, so amazing to discover how much they actually can do, know about them self and communicate at such a young age, we are really the limit!
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Re: Elimination Com, Natural Infant Hygene, birth to 4 mo st

Postby MamaKh » 21 Oct 2015, 10:35

LO is almost 4 weeks. Time for an update!
MamaKh wrote:After hopefully barely reaching the top of the PT hill with #1, at 35 months

Ha ha! What a joke. That was just one of many plateaus. DS1 currently (the past few days) recognize that he needs to pee and does so at the toilet, when at home. Diapers at pre school and insits on pooping in a diaper. We have at least managed to changing the poop room from the guest room to the bathroom!

So, even more encouraged by that I started EC with DS2 at 3 days. He is not diaper free (yet), cloth at daytime and so far disposables when out and over night. Just like RR this is what we are doing now:
RedRum wrote: I'm mostly making it up as I go along but for me it's a mixture of knowing when he's likely to go (immediately after waking up, during/after a feed, or right after I take his nappy off ) and following his curs so like DF said if he fusses in the sling or when I'm holding him I know it's probably toilet related. His hungry cry is very different (high pitched/shrill/urgent) to fussing for a we or straining for a poo.

Using timing (at wake ups, and about 15 min after a feed) and looking for him signaling, and have found fussing, squirming, and a high pitch demanding "A!" cry indicating poop/pee need, whereas crying more in dispart/urgen "a-a-a-a-!" meaning need for milk. DH was sceptic at start and said "don't torture the baby" when he was fussing over the sink, and DS2 immediately responded with a huge poop :D When he wakes up midst nap or has a hard time falling asleep taking him to pee seems to do the trick and he quickly goes back to sleep, sometimes even without nursing. We have had a lot of wet and dirty diapers but the past 2 nights this seems to have changed. 2 nights ago only sprinkles in the diaper, and pee. Last night DS2 fell asleep after finally getting all his poop out, at 9:30. I tried to wake him to pee when I went to bed at midnight but he slept right through it, so I laid him back down (same dry diaper). He woke up at 3 am, still a dry diaper (!!) and I held him over a bowl (while sitting in bed). He then did a huge pee, same diaper back on, nursed for 10 min and fell back asleep. Was then fussing for another 40 min, tried feeding/pee until a big burp did the trick. Woke up at 6:30 still dry but with a little poop in the diaper. I find it amazing that he had a dry diaper for 5,5 hours and also slept the same interval, no feeds! :D (DS1 used to wake me up ever 2 hours, and when at the worst, every 45 min!)
After being up for 4 hours today, we are still on the 3rd diaper, and have put him to pee successfully 4 times wearing the last diaper.

We are using cuing sounds "kisssss" for peeing and "un-gah" (apparently the sound used in Korea) when he poops and also when we put him in position to tell hi we are ready. I am amazed but at this young age we notice that he waits for this, and to be undressed before going and this keeps him very much at peace. It also seems that he now has stopped peeing and pooping very often in his sleep, he will at least wake up to light sleep so if we are there we can help him.
DandelionFrosting wrote: It really does explain a LOT -- why they wake at night, why it's sometimes really hard to get them to sleep, why they sometimes cry and cry and demand to be taken out of a carrier or car seat, only to be perfectly fine with being put back in a few minutes later. It sounds crazy, but it helped with sleep a LOT.
This.
I also remember that DS1 stopped poping in his sleep at 6 weeks, and peeing in sleep at 8 weeks. Unfortunately I didn't know to do this with him, and I see a lot of the fussiness he did the early months explained now. That being said, he is also learning now and maybe has taken some inspiration from his little brother since we seem to have some flow now. I also use the queuing "kisss" for him, and it seems to help him too to release! weird as it is, they are sort of on the same page here!

It is time-consuming to be so attentive all the time, especially with a 3 yr old at home, or say when cooking dinner, but also very rewarding when it works. We also have opened our minds up to what this little baby really understands and is aware of, and DH, DS1 and I are all communication with each other what we think that DS2 wants and what of his signals we interpreted. DS1 is really cool and as soon as the LO is fussing/crying he asks "what does the baby want?" and sometimes comes with his own guesses. I am convinced that just as with BLW and BF on demand this will help us respect and get to know our new family member much quicker. It's great to have another tool that just boobs to help LO feel good! And yes, DH is convinced though flabbergasted still.

We are not really sure how to introduce this to the world around us, as we think people might find us crazy/hard to believe. I tell my crunchiest friends, especially the ones expecting/w small babies. And when away have asked to use the bathroom and put LO over the toilet (aposed to the sink that we use at home). That has worked as well.

And yes RR on the trajectory of a small boys pee! Once straight up, and what a range! I am now positioning my self so that if we have a miss in the bathroom sink it will hit the soap dispenser rather than our toothbrushes! LOL (as we are in the bottom line thread I feel free to be... free spoken. Pees and Poops are just a major part of my every day life now!)

Have a nice day everyone!
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Re: Elimination Com, Natural Infant Hygene, birth to 4 mo st

Postby Where'stheMistletoe » 21 Oct 2015, 10:41

That sounds fantastic! You sound really positive about it and DS1 sounds like he's being lovely with DS2 :) . I really enjoyed doing it with BG, very rewarding as you say. Also she's now fully PT'd day and night and I'm sure that's because she got used to how her body worked doing EC.
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Re: Elimination Com, Natural Infant Hygene, birth to 4 mo st

Postby MamaKh » 21 Oct 2015, 10:53

Must be so good to have your girl fully dry at such a young age. I hope and pray. It is so much harder with an independent 3 yr old! I hope we will get there as well, but here the journey, not the goal, truly is the purpose!
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Re: Elimination Com, Natural Infant Hygene, birth to 4 mo st

Postby mamapup » 21 Oct 2015, 21:48

Wow, what a tale. Thanks for sharing.I'm reading because I'm potty training little Croc at 19 months and people are split between thinking we are normal or completely and utterly nuts.
Don't think I could have faced any earlier but agree entirely about getting the older one on track through the younger one. The puppy has no desire to get out of night nappies but we are hopimg that he'll be annoyed if little Croc does first and that'll spur him on! She is already waking to pee sometimes.

Anyway, we'll done you and ds2.
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Re: Elimination Com, Natural Infant Hygene, birth to 4 mo st

Postby MamaKh » 22 Oct 2015, 05:03

mamapup wrote:Wow, what a tale. Thanks for sharing.I'm reading because I'm potty training little Croc at 19 months and people are split between thinking we are normal or completely and utterly nuts.
LOL just saw my post on the phone were I usualy brows and post from, this however I wrote on the computer. It must be my loooongest post ever.

I am certain we fall into the nuts category when judged by wester society. Normal when judged by the rest of the world...

I read that toilet training an older child takes on average 8 months. That has helped to keep me relaxed (we r on our 5th month). Better start sooner rather than later then, right MP?
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