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7 weeks and still pooing in knickers - whispering - success!

PostPosted: 12 Feb 2015, 14:14
by UnhappyRightFoot

Argh. I'm struggling to not get cross. She seems to take herself downstairs to play in Munchies room while I'm cooking supper and does it. If I keep her upstairs and remind her to go, she just doesn't. Then poos in the morning (at nursery, it would seem). There are no clues, not warnings. Just poo. We had a trying evening at Pizza Express last Friday - after dragging me off to the toilet 8 times (only doing 1 wee), she then poos 45 seconds after getting back from the table after ask number 8. I remember Munchie used to ask 2 or 3 times to go before actually doing a poo, but at leas she did it on the loo.

She keeps saying she should not poo in her knickers and not on the floor and not in the bath, only on the potty and toilet. But then doesn't. I'm trying bribary with chocolate, hovering around poo time (but she doesn't go), reminding her to go, ignoring her so she goes alone, not mentioning it, telling her she can't start "school" (nursery at Munchie's school - which she is supposed to be starting after half term but can't if she's not trained), etc etc. I have no idea what to do. All I can do is to keep clearing the crap up behind very gritted teeth.

I know I've asked before but please - any ideas???? (and please don't tell me she'll get it in the end - I've heard that SOOOOOOOOO many times - see random rants post!!!!!)

Re: 7 weeks and still pooing in knickers.

PostPosted: 12 Feb 2015, 14:24
by pimento
I've got the No Cry Potty Training solution at home- I can look in it to see whether she has any tips for this situation if you'd like?

Actually, just googled and this recommendation came up. Not sure if you've tried it, and I see that you've said there's no warning, but...

To help your child overcome her fear, Dr. Brown recommends this gradual step-by-step process: first, let your child poop in a diaper but only while in the bathroom. After a week or so, continue letting her poop in her diaper, but have her do it while sitting on the potty or the toilet. Next, cut a hole in the diaper with a pair of scissors just before putting it on your child, and let her wear it as she uses the toilet. (We know it sounds a little crazy, but she'll still feel the diaper's familiarity and security while her poop drops into the potty.) After she's used the hole in the diaper for about a week, it will be time for underpants!

What about sitting her on the potty with a nappy on around poo time and literally just waiting/distracting with TV, etc while she just sits there and waits? I know you have better things to do with your time, but... and then move on to the hole in the nappy like it suggests above?

Sorry if these are stupid ideas or you've tried them already. x

Re: 7 weeks and still pooing in knickers.

PostPosted: 12 Feb 2015, 14:33
by UnhappyRightFoot
Thanks pimento - I know you are having your own struggles with this too!!!

I've read the Dr Brown thing before. I can see if I can manipulate it. The only thing is that she doesn't seem scared or upset by it. She just does it. I've tried asking if she doesn't like it and she just glazes over and doesn't really answer - like she doesn't understand. She is fully out of control of all emotions at the moment (another 2 year old phase) and so (I think) would have little hesitation in kicking off about it if she really didn't like it and didn't want to try and poo on the potty/toilet. But it is certainly worth a go.

I could get DH to sit in the bathroom with her around poo time - it's usually while I'm cooking supper - and see if that helps. It just made me think that it might be a privacy thing - seeing as she goes downstairs on her own to do it. But then now I'm typing this, I'm thinking that the 2 she has done have been on the potty next to the dinner table with us all there. And the poo accidents she does at nursery aren't "private". Not a clue what's going on in her head!!!

But she is currently napping in her knickers for the first time as she has woken with a dry nappy for over a month! Cue a mess!!!!!!

Re: 7 weeks and still pooing in knickers.

PostPosted: 12 Feb 2015, 14:59
by MumtoMonsters
Quite frankly mate that all sounds far too much like hard bloody work. So...

1. I would put her back in nappies/pull ups. If she goes at roughly the same time everyday (i.e. when you're most likely to be cooking dinner), then I'd just put her in pull ups during the danger time. If she's likely go at any time then I'd put her in pull ups until she has done her poo and then revert to pants for the rest of the day (assuming she only goes once a day).

2. I would introduce poo time. If she goes at the roughly the same time every day then find a time as close to that as you can where you can guarantee you'll be able to spend five minutes in the bathroom with her (if she's not that regular then pick the time of day that fits best with your routine as a family - before bed is the only time that works for us). Then, every day at that time sit her on the toilet/potty and do something that engages her brain enough to allow her brain to forget that her body is there to put a poo in the loo. Picture books probably won't cut it now, she's too bright and knows most of them off by heart - she needs to be totally and utterly engrossed in the book. Chapter books worked for us (The Magic Chair for K and Noddy for G), one chapter a night - if they poo great, but if not they can still get off the loo once the chapter has finished (and it still counts as a success because they sat there for the duration). Apps/games on your phone/tablet might work, and jigsaws/puzzles are also a pretty good option if she's interested enough. It won't work unless she's totally absorbed in the activity. Don't expect it to work over night, but after a few days you should start to see an improvement, and by the end of the week things should definitely be starting to look up. You'd need to be consistent though - you're training her body to react to the situation, and eventually she'll catch up with the rest of it and just start going as and when she needs to.

It sounds as though she knows what she's supposed to do, but hasn't quite figured out the practicalities of it yet, and it doesn't sound as though she's stressed/upset/scared, so well done you because there is no way I would have remained calm for seven weeks of washing splats out of pants! I think you're (both) doing a great job, but maybe it's time to give yourself some slack and take a little break. It's not a failure, it's not regression, it's just about finding another approach.

My nephew took a year to sort out this part of potty training. It was very stressful and upsetting for everyone involved. It wasn't his fault, he was just never given the opportunity to sort it out. He was given one way to learn to potty train and that was it. It didn't suit him, and so it didn't work. So I figure, maybe just try to work it a different way. Reduce the risk of failure (regular poo times), reduce the impact (pull ups not pants as required) and take it from there.

Good luck!

Re: 7 weeks and still pooing in knickers.

PostPosted: 12 Feb 2015, 15:52
by mamapup
Bribery pure and simple. We have a spider man mask the puppy can have after ten poos on the loo. He's still hit and miss too but getting better and now he's really bothered when he poos in his pants because it's a lost opportunity to get a poo sticker towards his mask.

Could it work for you?

Re: 7 weeks and still pooing in knickers.

PostPosted: 12 Feb 2015, 16:01
by lisbeth
I think she is unusual, but my daughter A does exactly what you describe after 7 (long!) months - no clues, no warnings at all! So, though I can't offer a solution, you have my sympathy - it is *so* unbelievably frustrating!,

A says she can't tell when she's going to do a poo, and (after a long time of considering alternatives) I believe her. I've done getting cross, because it's not nice to clear up; and rewards, but that doesn't work if she's not actually able to tell when she's going to go. She told my sister around Christmas that 'she wasn't good at poos', and that it made her 'very sad', so since then we have gone back to using a lot of pull ups to take the pressure off the situation, but I don't feel I have handled the whole thing very well.

If we ever get out of our current run of one illness after another, I will take her to the GP to see if there's an underlying physical reason, because she's a lot older - she's just turned 4, but I kind of hope that she's just late in that bit of development. I'd have gone back to nappies back in the beginning if i'd known what was ahead, but she was dry almost immediately, and after that 24 hour nappies seemed to make her sore.

As an aside I have read in several places that gaining bowel control is correlated with starting to walk down stairs one foot after the other... I've no idea what might link the two developments but A doesn't yet regularly walk downstairs one foot after the other.

Sorry not to be more constructive, and I hope you get some ideas that work for you!

Re: 7 weeks and still pooing in knickers.

PostPosted: 13 Feb 2015, 00:52
by Twinkly
When M was training, she was always a bit hit and miss with poos. I just knew when she needed to go as it was to and fro the potty. In the end what worked was just telling her gently to stay on the potty, then I'd cuppy down with her and cuddle her whilst she pushed. It was almost like she needed physical reassurance to help her.

Re: 7 weeks and still pooing in knickers.

PostPosted: 13 Feb 2015, 12:48
by DandelionFrosting
((((HF)))) That sounds SO. Frustrating! I think you're pretty amazing for enduring all that without shouting the house down. I'm pretty sure I would have cracked by now.

I second finding some kind of activity she can be absorbed in. Saurus was like that even before we potty trained him -- we had a terrible time any time we were away from home because he wouldn't poo even in his diaper unless he was 1) standing up, 2) completely absorbed in some activity, and 3) in a different room from me. When we started potty training we made him a potty desk out of a diaper box with the side cut off and put the most distracting, button-pushing-light-flashing-bright-colored annoying plastic toy we had on it. (It was a fake car dashboard with a steering wheel and police car, fire engine and ambulance sirens -- completely obnoxious.) I set a timer for five minutes and asked him to sit on the potty and play with the toy until the timer went beep, and then I made an excuse to leave the room and sneakily stopped the timer.

If Pickle is going off to another room to do it, she must at least subconsciously know that she has to go. Would it help to sneak after her when she goes to Munchie's room and see what she's doing when she poos? Or maybe wait until she chooses something to play with and then whisk her and the toy off to the potty together?

Whatever you do, I really hope it works out for you SOON. You've endured way more than anyone should have to in this potty training business! The universe owes you one by now.

Re: 7 weeks and still pooing in knickers.

PostPosted: 15 Feb 2015, 09:37
by mamapup
Argh. Three weeks in an no sign of any understanding of poo at all. I just had to clean a poonami, the like I haven't seen since little Croc was small. All down his legs. So bad I chucked him in the shower. I get that this is hard for them, I get that this wasn't a particularly healthy looking poo but seriously, when is he going to get this. Now I think he forced out poo just because he wanted his spiderman mask not because he has any bodily understanding.

There is no common theme to his pooing at all. He's a whenever, wherever kinda guy so I don't even know where to begin.
Happy feet, you're amazing that you're at seven, eight?, weeks now and still going. Although I fear we will be there too shortly.

Re: 7 weeks and still pooing in knickers.

PostPosted: 15 Feb 2015, 14:58
by UnhappyRightFoot
Thanks to everyone for your replies!

We were discussing a few ideas during lunch on Friday when she got down from the table to go on the potty, slid it under the table and did a poo!!!!! 3rd one! Though it has not started a trend.

MTM - I think you are right. Although the disappearing evening poo is not always a done thing - probably about 30% - its enough for us to decide that if she has not poo'd by the time her nap finishes, she can wear pull ups. It will just take all the stress out of the clear up. Then, if it does turn out that the pooing without something on is an issue, we can follow pimentos idea. It doesn't fit with the fact that she has done 3 on the potty without any fuss at all, but you never know!!

We are also going to introduce poo time on days when she hasn't poo'd by early evening. DH isn't so keen on the idea of her sitting on the loo or potty for long periods of time (piles) but I've said only 5-10 minutes. Does that sound ok?? Then read to her or whatever.

I think we all just need to take a step back. I have not been calm over the weeks. On a couple of occasions, quite the reverse!!! Followed by the total guilt trip whilst googling the subject and every website saying "Don't get angry - they aren't doing it on purpose"!!!!

I do think she just doesn't get it. Sometimes she'll say she's done a poo and she hasn't. And sometimes when I say she needs to do her poos on the potty, she'll ask why! She's told on a daily basis!!!!!! She isn't able to communicate what she thinks/feels about it and if she knows it's coming or not. She's so good with her wee's (3 accidents in almost 6 weeks) - I think it makes it all the more frustrating!

MP - poonami! You have my sympathies!!! 8 weeks tomorrow <sigh> If she's still doing it on Wednesday, she won't be starting her new nursery after half term. :(

Thank you again.

Re: 7 weeks and still pooing in knickers.

PostPosted: 15 Feb 2015, 19:27
by MumtoMonsters
HF - I reckon 5m should be plenty, too long and she'll just become too anxious to get off. It's more about giving her body a really good chance to poo where/when you want rather than insisting she stays put until she's done. Honestly, it will be fine and she will get there, but it will be in her own good time I'm afraid! Can you take some of the pressure off by just assuming she won't move up to the next class next week? It won't be terrible if she just needs a couple more weeks.

Re: 7 weeks and still pooing in knickers.

PostPosted: 25 Feb 2015, 00:37
by UnhappyRightFoot
A couple of successes!!! YAY!!!!! One last week and then one this evening! She got down from the dinner table a couple of times saying she needed a poo (hadn't done one today) but nothing was coming so DH gave her a book to read and we all ignored her and hey presto! A poo (an effing stinky one too - only the second time I have had my stomach turned over by their nappy exploits!!!) So, not starting new nursery yet but another one is a good one!

It's not a disaster about the nursery - she's happy enough where she is! It's just that "new" nursery is at the school where Munchie is and she is soooo excited to start there! It's also a smaller group, she'll be swimming more, there are the woods etc etc etc. And thinking back to when Munchie was there, her confidence just blossomed - which I think Pickle needs! Not to mention a much easier drop off and pick up and an extra 3 hours for me at home! I think we are now thinking she will start after the Easter holidays as this term is so short!

Re: 7 weeks and still pooing in knickers.

PostPosted: 25 Feb 2015, 07:26
by mamapup
Been meaning to come and ask. Really glad. I think something just has to click it seems.

Re: 7 weeks and still pooing in knickers.

PostPosted: 26 Feb 2015, 23:20
by UnhappyRightFoot
One step forward and all that!

After Tuesdays success, we had a repeat performance on Wednesday!!!! Then 2 pooey knickers and a wet tutu today.

Re: 7 weeks and still pooing in knickers.

PostPosted: 08 Mar 2015, 11:22
by UnhappyRightFoot
Saying this very quietly - she hasn't had a poo accident for 7 days!!!!! She even poo'd on the toilet at nursery on Wednesday. And more - she's taking herself to the toilet and potty for wee's and poos!!!!!!

I thought this day would never come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!